I have a 1496 Square foot Split Level House (we live in northeast ohio) with a Rheem Air Handler (30+ years old) and Carrier 38Ycc Heat Pump (2-1/2 Ton, from 1993). Need to upgrade..have several options..here are (2) we are debating...
Carrier 13 Seer 7.7 HSPF Efficiency Heat Pump as low as 75 decibal rating (loudness of heat pump when running) 2-1/2 ton with 5 years parts Compressor with Carrier Base Model Air Handler with 15 KW Heat Strip $4650.00 OR
Goodman 14 Seer 8.2 HSPF Efficiency Heat Pump with a decibal rating of 72, 2-1/2 ton unit with LIFETIME Compressor Warranty 10 Years on Parts (New 2007 Warranty that Goodman now offers at NO ADDITIONAL COST, Warranty information available at
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Home/Products/HeatPumpSystems/14SEERSSZ14/tabid/218/Default.aspx)
with a Bryant Base Model Air Handler with 20 KW Heat Strip $4688.00.
From my research I have read Goodman Heat Pump's are considered low end units, but with this new warranty would you feel more comfortable purchasing a Goodman?? I have also read they have increased the quality of their units over the past 3 years.
Even though we have a Carrier now and have lived here 9 years, the heat pump has had problems (High pressure switch, Defrost, relays, circuit board replacement). If it wasn't for my father (electrician), the heating company's would have had us replace it 5 years ago.
Does this new warranty change anyone's opinion about Goodman Heat Pumps?
dougv, Did you know your warranty will not be validated if you mix units (Goodman and Bryant)? Any of the mfgrs. stipulate this, you must have their matched units. Plus the SEER and HSPF will not be the same, esp. with a higher SEER unit. You can go here and find matched ARI numbered units and their efficiencies(ARI is the org. that certifies efficiencies.)
http://www.ceehvacdirectory.org/hp.php
I am replacing a 2ton unit. I had similar options, a 13 SEER Carrier system for $3600, or buy a 14SEER,8.5HSPF Goodman myself, and pay the contractor to install. Of course theres not too many who want to install your unit, but I found one. I bought the Goodman unit from a dist. yesterday, and it will be about $3000 total installled. The warranty was one selling point, it's now at least 10yrs. on everything, incl. the indoor coil. My take is most units are very similar-same scroll comp., similar PC boards, blower/fan motors, caps, coils, etc. The big diff. is the cabinets, and the Goodman has a nice louvered steel type, a big step up from the lowest contractor grade which is just the wire rods surrounding the coil. One bad point is you have to field install the TXV valve.
Like said: To get any kind of warranty You have to have the units match inside and out. In any way a Goodman is the bottom of any line. Also if you buy it on line who will warranty it out?
With what power or fuel cost is today You for sure want to put in a seer of 15 or more on the AC side
warrantees are nice until your contractors over every year replacing parts, then it just becomes a pain in the butt. we've installed plenty of Amana (made by goodman)units as a cheap option and while the warrantees are nice the equipment isnt and its usually a better deal to spend the extra little bit of money on the Carrier, theyve changed their equipment substantially in the past year, with ball bearing condenser fan motors and thicker walled copper. i think of Goodman as a Hyundai, you get a 10 year warranty but your car spends a third of that time in the shop.
Goodman makes a great unit. The downside and what makes people think they are junk is that they will sell to just about anyone and that attracts the hacks. If installed and maintained properly a Goodman will last as long as any other brand. Check the companies refrences and the BBB for any complaints.
Originally Posted by Ed Imeduc
Like said: To get any kind of warranty You have to have the units match inside and out. In any way a Goodman is the bottom of any line. Also if you buy it on line who will warranty it out?
With what power or fuel cost is today You for sure want to put in a seer of 15 or more on the AC side
I bought the unit from a regular listed Goodman dealer(who also adv. online).
The warranty does state no online purchases. You can go to any dealer and buy a part, just like any company. After the year or so warranty from any contractor, youre going to be paying labor and the part will be ordered by them, so what's the big difference?
I'm curious, why do you say, specifically that Goodman is bottom line? I've heared people swear by Trane, but my parents Trane has had a couple probs. and it's only 5 yrs. old. I have a friend with a 7 yr. old Goodman with absolutely none. My real contractor special Tempstar is now 15 yrs. old, and there is a constriction in one end that limits the heat, but otherwise is still running-the A/C side works perfect, and has never had repairs.
I've found many conts. bad-mouth Goodman because they cut into their markup of their franchise units. Also, because they do sell to independants, they get alot more DIY installations, which translates to a higher fail rate.
Other than that- most brands have the same comp., same grade coils, boards, relays,blowers, etc. Mostly from the same mfgrs. They are just assembling them. If the plant QA is good, than the repair rate is largely due to installation, upkeep, usage and other variables.
Originally Posted by mattison
Goodman makes a great unit. The downside and what makes people think they are junk is that they will sell to just about anyone and that attracts the hacks. If installed and maintained properly a Goodman will last as long as any other brand. Check the companies refrences and the BBB for any complaints.
Well, this review from JD Power doesn't look too bad-
http://www.jdpower.com/homes/ratings/HVAC/index.asp
Goodman units are greak and if you want the top warranties you can buy their Amana line of products. Just be sure you don't get Uncle Billy Bobs heating and lawn care , to install it for you. http://www.amana-hac.com/ It is all about who puts it in. Goodman in our area will sell equipment to just about anyone who claims to be a contractor. They really need to work on that aspect.
Thanks to all that responded..we were corrected..we are getting both a goodman air handler and heat pump. We purchased it from a local heating/cooling contractor in our area that has been in business for over 30+ years. They said they have been installing alot lately in newer homes due to cost. They were very up front about the Goodman name and it's quality of product (and its past), in comparision to Trane, Carrier etc.. Tuesday is our install date..we will keep you posted!
I would say that you'll be fine if he's been in the bussiness for 30 years.
To DOUGV - looks like your Goodman heat pump should have been in for a few weeks...what's the verdict? As with most others on this forum I suspect, I am also in the market to replace an old (and getting older by the day) GE heat pump/air handler. An original unit installed when the house was new 24 years ago, it keeps on working and has required only an occasional coolant refill and cleaning of the air handler.
I am told that Trane bought our GE, so if the new Trane units are 1/2 as good as this GE has been that might be a good choice. But the best price is on a Goodman 13SEER 130301A, and the 10 year warranty is the best in the industry, hands down. But as the earlier comment made about the Hundai, if you have to have it repaired all of time, it's the hassle involved with the repair and the down time that really is the biggest problem.
I have gotten 3 estimates, Trane, Lennox and Goodman, from 3 different contractors. Lennox is the most expensive, but after doing some more reading I realized he priced a two stage unit rather than the entry-level unit I had requested, and those I have discovered are argueably better and hence more expensive. The Trane was thru a Home Depot contractor and was a mid range price (but it is the old GE line and I have had good luck with my old GE). The Goodman, not surprisingly was the least, but I have used the contractor before for many plumbing and HVAC jobs so I turst their work...they have been in the business for about 30 years in this area of Virginia.
I was going to jump on the Goodman since it was the least expensive and had the best warranty (and we were only planning on being in the house a few years). And if you believe the JD Powers review mentioned earlier, it shows on paper to be a pretty good unit. But there is also a lot of bad press about Goodman, and I have found several HVAC sites that don't have a lot of good to say about them and their reliability.
So, still looking for input from consumers and professionals alike. I don't fully understand all of the differences in the various units...two stage vs. single stage, more SEER vs. less (I am told that each SEER number is about 6% more efficient...so a 13 SEER is 78 to 80% and a 15 or 16 SEER is well over 90% efficient). Any words from the wise appreciated.
I was going to jump on the Goodman since it was the least expensive and had the best warranty (and we were only planning on being in the house a few years).
You say it right there. Go for it and Id get a SEER 14 and stop there. Also when you look at a heat pump look for the HSPF of it. I think if you check the warranty is only good to the buyer of the unit. Not good if you sell the home
Hi Everyone!
The Heat Pump has been installed for about 2 weeks now and is now running smoothly. We had problems with the crew sent to install it...plus they dropped the Heat Pump when carrying it into our backyard on the dolly! It had to have a switch replaced inside it..which they of course they had to order...so our 2 day install..lasted 3 weeks..and we ran on emergency heat that whole time! Now it is up and running, it's really quiet (compared to our old unit and our neighbors current unit). The true test will come when the weather warms up and they do the spring start up on the unit and check all the pressures..which they say cannot be done now due to the cold weather. It's more accurate in the warm weather according to the company we are using..?
Hi. I am at the beginning stages of trying to sort this out. How did your various efforts go with Goodman or alternatives?
I have a colonial with a York that gave up the ghost. I was told we should finally replace it and a Bryant was the recommendation from the contractor that has done some servicing for us.
Thanks for any advice.
Kirk
just thought i would ask a ? or 2
which is better Bryant or Carrier or payne ?
same unit just the paint and the warranty is differant
Trane , American standard and ameria star
are the same
lennox ,armstong whirlpool,air ease and others
same but lennox puts alot more parts in that best so it cost more when it breaks down LOL job security
ICP which is TempStar , comfort maker, arcoair ,keeprite,
Heil, some (Sear others are goodman from sears)
every unit out there has the same parts as the next one
you are just paying for someone to put them to getter
goodman gets a bad rep because they sell to anyone that says their in the HVAC trade LOL
same units but with the name Amana which is top of the line unit does not get that rep because they will not sell to just anyone and it s a goodman and comes with a warranty for life time replacements , can any other brand say that ? no not really but they try two
so what i'm saying is why pay for a name ,buy from someone you know you can call when you need them
if it is put in right why do you need a 10 year warranty from carrier or bryant when you can buy payne for less ,same parts they should last the same
and until last November 2007 all Trane units were 2nd of american standard just look at a trane's ID tag before that and it says trane by american standard then the cat was let out of the bag buy a company in ohio and indiana and they even changed their web site
so if you were buying a 2nd why not buy ameria star it just the warranty that is different
their is NO way you should have to wait for parts unless
someone don't have the money to buy them and return with
the part and then get credit for the part
so if you are having trouble with your installs or it take more then 2 days to get a part you should look for a better company to do your work
i hope this helps someone
i have been doing HVAC for 34 years and i sell every brand out here and these are the Facts decide for your self
it's your money .
I have the following choice:
Amana ASZ160361A Heat pump and Amana air handler, 16 SEER, 9.75 HSPF, 3 ton, R410a, Lifetime warranty (first 10 years the contractor will handle everything themselves, we have a maintenance contract with them and they are an old, large company), variable speed, two stage compressor, and we plan to be here a long time. Installed, $11,000 (Northern VA is expensive).
Carrier 25HPA536A003 Heat pump and Carrier air handler, 16 SEER, 8.3 HSPF, 3 ton, R410a, 10 year warranty with Carrier, National contractor, variable speed, single stage compressor. Installed, $8,806. Alternatively, a 16.5 SEER, 9.3 HSPF, with two stage compressor I think would have been about $10,100.
We have a two story colonial house plus a walkout basement. In both cases the inside and outside units will be replaced and the small line (lineset?) will have to be replaced to the current standard size (3/8, I think?) so they have to run the new line into the house. We are replaceing a 1993 Tech 2000 3 ton Carrier (not sure what the SEER was of that--can't seem to find it on line) with the compressor overheating and we are told it is on its last legs and could go out anytime (it burned some wires and has been fixed temporarily).
What do you think? After reading around we are not too worried about the brands, I think either will be installed properly. Main issue is the better warranty, slightly better specs, and familiarity with the contractor for the Amana, vs the less cost for the Carrier. We are comfortable with the company that offered the Amana, less familiar with the other company. Not sure if its OK to put company names on line.
Thanks in advance!
befor you buy think about this 410 a reffergrient is now
the new envorment friendly reffergrient and has been out for 10 years or so R22 reffergrent will be fased out this up n comming year to meet epa and goverment guidelines and soon R22 will be like the old r 12 used in cars ect. the price will sore to add reffergrent to your system if you have problems later on. for $100 -150 dollards different get the 410a unit goodman offers a lifetime compressor warrenty vrs the 10 year on r22 hope this helps
Please keep in mind, that when you purchase a High SEER
system you may be eligible for a tax credit 30% up to $1500.00
on your unit ask your contractor if knows about this if not find
another contractor. Just purchased new Goodman 4 ton 15 SEER unit for 3400.00 installed and recieved $1350.00 tax credit for 2009. This is dollar for dollar credit. Total unit cost..
2050.00 installed. BE SURE TO CHECK WITH INSTALLER on this
and BE SURE TO GET YOUR CERTIFICATE FOR TAX PURPOSE at time of installation. This is good on all high efficentcy brands. This is through the Stimulis program for saving energy.
Hope this helps this is my first post.
In order to get the tax credit for an air conditioner alone, you have get a 16 SEER model and that will require a furnace with a variable speed blower.
WOW WHAT Brought this post from the dead!
The parrot's not dead...he's only sleepin!
Anyone? Anyone?
Hey ... fabulous site here....
... so we're replacing our 3 ton Trane heatpump and indoor unit in a few weeks. We have 5 quotes ... Trane, Bryant, Carrier (x2) and now Goodman. The current system came with the house in 1989. 20 years ago.
THe Carrier is the 2 stage option, and is not just a little more than the Goodman, but fully twice (2x) , 100% more (!)
The carrier is the Infinity Series, 19 seer, with the FE4A handler. But at nearly $12K (including a 875.00 honeywell trusteam humidifier) we're wondering is the 2 stage todo worth THAT much more???
In the summer we use the AC regularly. In the winter, we RARELY ever run the furnace, since we have a large Pacific Ebergy fireplace insert. This badboy keeps the house toasty. So we need a more powerful humidifier, AND we would want the DC motor to continually circulate the air at a HIGHER speed than what typically is used for most handlers.
Hence the Carrier. (The salesman claimed to even use wood heat as well, and understood the usual limitations of other brands).
Now ... here's a few questionable items:
1) The carrier salesman claims that only the infinity series has a control that permits you to vary the continuous fan speed ... most are otherwise all preset to very LOW which would cause a problem with moving enough air flow for our wood burner.
2) He (the carrier dude) also mentioned that the continous fan is fine in the winter, but in the summer, if the compressor shuts off... but the fan continues to blow, it will draw moisture OFF the condenser and send it right back into the living space, unless the fan STOPS first to permit the moisture to drain. THen the continuous fan kicks back in. Carrier has this feature, whereas others apparently don't (???)
Is that for real ?
----
So we were definitely working up to the HUGE funding amount required for the Carrier unit, UNTIL we see that the (50yr +) Goodman installer could get us his for nearly half the Carrier.
At this rate, we can get the top of the Goodman line (16 SEER HP) and toss in the steam humidifier, a much more intelligent thermostat, 5 media filter for still less than Trane, or any other brand (and still nearly $4K less than the Carrier.
SO ... what's a poor HVAC requisitioner supposed to do?
For the matter, we can get the 16 Seer now, and in Ten years, replace it with the then current technology, and STILL pay less than a Carrier now ... which is only at 19 SEER rating...
Any thoughts.... keep in mind the wood burning issue is a bit unique.
The layout - on Slab, RANCH, 2200 sqft. Newer 3pane windows. We circulate the heat usually with a box fan in the FRONT of the house to shove the wood burner heat down the hall and around the floor plan. WOrks great, but a little noisy.
Not sure if any air handler would really move the air that well ...?
BUyer beware on the Goodman. Just had their super efficient heat pump/variable speed fan installed by a very reputable dealer. We got the ducting replaced and everything is less than 30 days new. Guess who's outside repairing something because the a/c doesn't work...the dealer. It's like an earlier post said, there's a reason a cheap Hyundai comes with a 10 year warranty. It needs it. I strongly suggest not going with the Goodman and getting a better brand like Carrier. Good luck.
Air is blowing cod again but the dealer has no clue as to why, as he did nothing to fix it. Says maybe we had a power surge but I was home and nothing else faultered. Again, anyone considering a Goodman, think twice. This could probably happen with any name brand and I'm sure they all have their fair share of problems, but if I could do over, I'd go with Carrier.
Our local Carrier contractor installed an Infinity High Efficiency gas furnace.
We also wanted to replace our air conditioning with a heat pump. The contractor did not want to sell a heat pump and eventually gave us a VERY high price.
Less than a year later, Carrier was promoting hybrid systems: heat pump and fossil fuel furnace. The same system we wanted, but the Carrier contractor did not want to sell, alleging problems with reliability.
In addition to the Carrier warranty, the contractor provided a labor warranty. Within 18 months we had so many problems with this Carrier furnace that the contractor refused to honor his warranty.
We made the very expensive decision to replace this new Carrier with a Goodman. We added a Goodman heatpump.
In contrast to recurring problems with the Carrier unit and the Carrier contractor, the Goodman hybride system (gas furnace and heat pump) has been working problem free for two years.
The combination of the Goodman high efficiencey furnace and heat pump has reduced by heating costs by almost 30%.
Doe anyone have any experience or opinions about Ruud heat pumps?
I received two estimates to replace a 3 ton unit...
The Amana was $6900 for a 14 SEER with lifetime compressor warranty and the Ruud was $6900 for 15.5 SEER with a ten year warranty. Both from reputable firms.
I certainly would prefer the 15.5 SEER rating, but the warranty is not as good.
Any thoughts anyone?
Originally Posted by Never Carrier
Our local Carrier contractor installed an Infinity High Efficiency gas furnace.
We also wanted to replace our air conditioning with a heat pump. The contractor did not want to sell a heat pump and eventually gave us a VERY high price.
Less than a year later, Carrier was promoting hybrid systems: heat pump and fossil fuel furnace. The same system we wanted, but the Carrier contractor did not want to sell, alleging problems with reliability.
In addition to the Carrier warranty, the contractor provided a labor warranty. Within 18 months we had so many problems with this Carrier furnace that the contractor refused to honor his warranty.
We made the very expensive decision to replace this new Carrier with a Goodman. We added a Goodman heatpump.
In contrast to recurring problems with the Carrier unit and the Carrier contractor, the Goodman hybride system (gas furnace and heat pump) has been working problem free for two years.
The combination of the Goodman high efficiencey furnace and heat pump has reduced by heating costs by almost 30%.
Could you be more specific on the carrier failures?
Originally Posted by zarranova
Doe anyone have any experience or opinions about Ruud heat pumps?
I received two estimates to replace a 3 ton unit...
The Amana was $6900 for a 14 SEER with lifetime compressor warranty and the Ruud was $6900 for 15.5 SEER with a ten year warranty. Both from reputable firms.
I certainly would prefer the 15.5 SEER rating, but the warranty is not as good.
Any thoughts anyone?
The ruud typically has on demand defrost and an outdoor TXV making them handle the defrost cycle much better.
Does anyone have any information on a Payne 13 Seer heat pump. I understand it is made by Carrier. Want to know if this is better option than Goodman.
Dont know much about a Payne Heat Pump.
We recently (last week) bought a Goodman DSZ160361A with a AEPF313716A+TXV air handler unit + 15KWH heat strip + Honeywell TH8320U1008 thermostat... came to approx $7300 installed, that is before $2000 ($1500 tax credit + $500 CLNP Rebate) in rebates and credits.
The quote we got for the Payne was around $4800 (low end system R22)
The Carrier Infinity 19 was quoted at $9500
All in all the Goodman had better HSPF than the others and where we live we hardly use A/C for more than 3 weeks in a year max. (Fans installed in all rooms are more than sufficient most of the time)
I do have to mention a few points.
The air flow has improved A LOT! (the older unit was a Carrier 38YCC036). I started to hear whistling sounds from some of the vents (which we had closed earlier to get more air into the bedroom). One vent (on the floor) that was not screwed in (probably when the previous owners changed the flooring to wood) started to float up when closed! never did that before.
The outside unit is HUGE! compared to my previous unit it looks like an elephant but its very quiet. . We could hear AND feel the the older carrier when it ran.
Overall the entire system is very quiet.
The installers did a really good Job so we are very happy and we dont plan on staying in this house for more than 4 years so didnt need to spend that much either and cant beat the Goodman Lifetime warranty.
Hope this helps.
I just got back home from hospital/recuperation from broken back (high speed parting of ways from large Thoroughbred horse)... and my broken heat pump is still awaiting replacement decision. I've gotten five estimates for 3 ton heatpumps: Ruud, Amana, Lennox, Carrier and York... York is the cheapest with the highest SEER rating of 18. Prices range from
Should I go with the York or is this a case of you get what you pay for? All are from reputable HVAC companies.
Its hard to say which units are best. Certainly the name brands have good quality products but most of the time they come with a high price.
There have been several references to Goodman units on this thread and I will just say that I have installed a a few in the past couple of years and they have held up well. Some of the older gas packs were big time problems but these split heat pump systems have done fine.
The main thing when buying a unit IMHO is the compressor. Make sure it has a Copeland. They are much quieter and better built. Also need to go with reputable dealer and make sure they know you expect a good installation. Ask questions like, are you going to run a vacuum? Installing filter drier? Are you using the correct size tubing for the size unit? Will any cuts in the tubing be reamed out? This will be irritating as hell to the installer but they will know you have done your homework!
As said before, R22 is being phased out so make it a 410A unit and be sure the line set is new.
I presume the answer to all those questions should be yes! Thank you for answering.
So, you think York is as good as any of the others as long as it is well installed?
This Copeland compressor... is that a brand name within these other brand names? Or is it a type of compressor design?
Prices range from $5500 for the York, to $7000 for the Amana, here in Central Texas.
Yes, the answer to the questions should be yes. Copeland is a type of compressor that may or may not be used in an A/C unit you are considering. You can ask the dealer and it is easily visible on the top of the compressor. As brand name units go I would say York was on the lower tier, but thats just my opinion.
I asked the questions, received positive responses, and found out the York does have a two-stage Copeland compressor, so I gave the go ahead. Thank you so much for helping me make this big decision.
Kind regards,
Laurie
Tags: carrier, goodman, heat, pump, year warranty, problems with, Carrier contractor, have been, they have, with Goodman, other brand
